Posts by jonathan dough

70

Acts 10:19, 20 - Destroying the Holy Spirit personification argument

by GOrwell in

14 years ago

this set of scriptures pretty much demolishes "the holy spirit is only god's active force and is only personified throughout the bible" argument (as if the rest book of acts doesn't already).

these verses pretty much put the nail in the coffin of that argument :.

acts 10:19,20 - nwt.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

In the New Testament the Spirit of God is both a power and a Person (ibid., 575). The Jehovah's Witnesses regard the supporting verses as mutually exclusive - the Spirit must be either a power or a person, and since it can’t be a person it must be a power. However, Scripture read together cannot accept one meaning at the expense of another, so, as indicated in Strong and Vine’s the power is the “Power of the Holy Spirit” (at 162), which is the Spirit of God (Romans 9:8-11 RSV), and Jehovah (or Lord RSV) is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17 NWT). The Holy Spirit is not simply an inert unthinking electrical current flowing from Jehovah God. It is a powerful spirit Person.

“The revelation that the Spirit of God is a Person is gradual” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 575). The majority of NT texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone… (ibid.), but “in the Synoptic Gospels [the Trinitarian formula in Mt. 28.19] clearly speaks of the person of the Holy Spirit.” So even though in most cases “the phrase ‘spirit of God’ reflects the OT notion of “the power of God,” as a result of the teaching of Christ, the definite personality of the Third Person of the Trinity is clear” (ibid.).

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-8.html#38

In the Acts of the Apostles the Spirit’s personality is not overtly demonstrated in the texts although “[t]he statement in Acts 15.28, “the Holy Spirit and we have decided,” alone seems to imply full personality” (ibid., 575). Paul uses the [Greek word for spirit] 146 times. Sometimes it means man’s natural spirit, but more often it signifies the divine sanctifying power (2 Cor 3.17-18; Gal 4.6; Phil 1.19). However, the Trinitarian formulas employed by St. Paul (e.g., 2 Cor 13.13), indicate a real personality” (ibid., 575).

The personality of the Holy Spirit is very obvious in the theology of the apostle John and is “very rich in meaning” (ibid.).

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth (Jn 14.17; 15.26; 16.13; cf. 1 Jn 4.6; 5.6), and “another helper,” the “paraclete” (Jn 14.16). The Spirit is “another” helper because, after Christ’s Ascension, he takes Christ’s place in assisting the disciples, in teaching them all that Jesus himself had not yet told them, in revealing the future to them, in recalling to their minds that which Jesus had taught them, in giving testimony concerning Jesus, and in glorifying Him (14.26; 16.12-16; 15.26; 1 Jn 2.27; 5.6). (Catholic Encyclopedia, 575)

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32

Questions to ask from Bible Teach Ch 8

by InterestedOne in

14 years ago

i'm going to my jw "bible" study tonight.

we are on chapter 8 and will pick up at par 15. any suggestions for questions to ask?.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

Eat his lunch with this information.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_144000_144_000_heaven.html

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/1914_jehovahs_witnesses_christs_second_coming.html

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16

after 40 years I guess I am being shunned

by Giordano in

jw
friends

14 years ago

well thanks to this site i have come to realize i am being shunned........i think.

i find this really funny because my wife and i were never df or da, and we walked out in the late 1960's.

and no one in the family ever shunned us.. without making too much out of it my niece has not invited us to visit and meet our new nephew.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

Verging on the macabre in this 21st Century, the Jehovah's Witnesses' draconian practice of disfellowshipping and shunning current and former members is one of the most controversial aspects of this religion and has caused untold psychological and physical harm to thousands. The Watchtower Society mislabels the practice of shunning and disfellowshipping as an act of love and a means of enforcing conformity.

Anyone considering joining the Jehovah's Witnesses is advised to pay close attention to the consequences and repercussions of not living up to the Watchtower Society's standards, or questioning their doctrine. The ultimate price might be unbearable and irreversible. To assist you in making the right decision and help you learn more about this practice, visit the websites listed below for additional information.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/shunning_disfellowshipped_shunning_disfellowshipping.html

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8

Interesting court case for australia; custody ruling went against JW.

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

14 years ago

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/famca/2009/737.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=jehovah.

2009 case of interest of course to those undergoing or about to undergo custody disputes.. basics are that non jw wife was awarded full custody and esp in medical matters (blood came up) .

that some limitations were placed on jw father in regards to involving a child.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

I've always wondered what issues a court might focus on in deciding the best interest of a child. Is there that much different between the US and Australia, Canada, GB, etc.? Here are a few I thought of:

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/child_custody_jehovahs_witnesses.html

Does the parent want their child raised as a Jehovah's Witness by the other parent? How much of the child's exposure to that religion is acceptable? Is it in the best interest of the child to allow the Jehovah's Witness parent to prohibit a necessary blood transfusion should the necessity arise? Who decides? How much notice of pending medical procedures is required? Are the risks and hazards of shunning a child or requiring the child to shun others in the child's best interest? Is the child being placed at unacceptable risk by going door-do-door in the Jehovah's Witnesses ministry?

Is it in the child's best interest to prohibit the child from celebrating birthdays, Christmas and other holidays? Who determines with whom the child may associate? What if the child does not want to participate in that religion? Do any of the particular teachings of the Watchtower Society negatively impact the child's psychological well being? How much control of your child by non-family members is acceptable? Can your child be forced to be home schooled by the Jehovah's Witness parent? Is it in a baptized child's best interest to be compelled to shun a non-believing disfellowshipped parent? Is it in a disfellowshipped child's best interest to be shunned by a believing parent and/or siblings?

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12

NWT: "Most accurate translation" -Who says?

by Leto in

14 years ago

i remember when i was a witless, i spouted the words "it's the most accurate translation".... i'm sure you did too :).

i've been researching the topic of just how badly the nwt is mistranslated.

i keep finding more and more examples of blatant mutilation of scriptures in the nwt.. for the record, i love to know just where are they finding these "scholars" to prop up their assertions that their joke of a bible is the "most accurate"?

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

Almost every website addressing the accuracy of the NWT is listed here and very few defend its accuracy.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/new_world_translation_bible_holy_scriptures.html

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10

Jehovah Witnesses help, (prophets/prophecies?)

by sunshinedrops in

jw
friends

14 years ago

gah, i'm having such a hard time understanding thiss!

dx okay, this is about to get a little ugly since i kinda have a lot to ask.

heregoes... -some apostates were trying to, i guess, upset me by bringing up several dates the watchtower has made "false predictions" in such as the 1800s and 1900s.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

I think you're baiting us and aren't who you claim to be. You sound like Angel Eyes again. But just the same:

There is an ocean of evidence.

Destruction of Jerusalem 607 is one of the big ones. Lots of information here:
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html

A mountain of false prophecy information is listed here:

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/false_prophets_prophecies_jehovahs_witnesses.html

Witness for the Truth

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41

Ostracism: anyone with legal background on this forum who could help?

by Nick! in

jw
friends

14 years ago

here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.

now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.

we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

In the context of child custody diputes, there might be an argument that shunning is not in the child's best interest.

That argument is laid out here: http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/child_custody_jehovahs_witnesses.html

Witness for the Truth

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66

The 144,000 and the Great Crowd of Revelation

by Leolaia in

20 years ago

8-11; ch.

as in ch.

like the "great crowd", they are "of every race, language, people, and nation (cf.

2 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

Jonathan-

Why don't you post a Directory on the goofy ideas of the Fundamentalists and Evangelicals.

Fair for the goose is fair for the gander, or with you guys is it a case of Sauce for the goose is Terrible for the gander.

I intend to. I hope to provide links to "Christendom" and for Jews like yourself a link to online Judaism resources. I also provide pro-jw links as well at the new Directory, and even something for deluded atheists. Hope you find it useful. Here is the link again and thanks for your interest.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html

J.D.

Witness for the Truth

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64

Ok , this Trinity Doctrine is messing me up

by KristiKay in

jw
friends

14 years ago

some of you may know, i've been meeting with a jw lady, for a "bible" study (i hate calling it that).

i've been trying to end it pretty much since.

i've gotten more insight on their religion...i've blantently said that i don't like the "governing body", i don't agree with the blood doctrine, can't.

14 years ago

jonathan dough 14 years ago

"that's true cameo in mathew 28:18 he says , all authority in heaven and earth were given to him not that he had it to begin with . It is obvious by his comments throughout the new testament that he never once boasted equality even tho he says such things as he and the father are one just as he and his followers would be one in purpose and that was to do Gods will. I just don't know what the comment equal in nature was supposed to mean since he was responsible for creating nature on earth. The whole point of him coming to earth was to give his perfect human existence as a ransom , a price paid in exchange for another. "

Me: You don't undertand the Trinity doctrine or the nature of the hypostic union. These pages will clear up your confusion.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/holy_trinity_God_father_son_holy_spirit_watchtower_jehovahs_witnesses.html

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

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